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Not sure if this belongs in the LOR thread or LED thread or general. But since I posted on the LOR support board first, I will try here.
Sorry in advance for the long post, but I am stumped and in urgent need of help and wanted to provide answers to questions that you may ask to help troubleshoot. I have exhausted all other options that I can think of locally, so I am putting this question out to the LOR and PC users to see if anyone has had a similar problem.
This is my 2nd year with LOR and my first year with LED's. I replaced all of my roof C9 Incandescents with new C9 LEDs this year and now I am having problems. I have 4 LOR Units that I am using. All are the LOR1602 - 30 amp controllers. I am currently using 1.6.1 software.
PROBLEM 1:
The C9 LED's I am using are making a buzzing sound everytime they turn on no matter what, when I am using LOR. When I plug them in normally into a regular outlet (non-Lor), they don't seem to make the buzz in my electrical box, just the string. I mean this buzz is fairly loud coming from the lights. You can hear it from about 20-30 feet away from my roof and they are on a second story about 30 feet above the ground.
The buzz is also happening inside my home's electrical panel when the LOR is running. In addition to that, it's making all the battery backups on other devices in my house go off (like a temporary loss of power) whenever LOR seems to hit the notes in a sequence that are near 100% on. These devices (batter backups) are not attached to anything related to LOR or even on the same circuit. They are on a separate circuit breaker box. My home has 2 150 Amp Circuit Breaker Boxes and the Xmas Circuits are spread out among the boxes and neither of my breaker boxes are using 80% or more of the allowed amount even with the rest of the house fully on. The house is 2 years old, so it was installed with all new wiring and etc.
PROBLEM 2:
In addition to problem 1 above, whenever the show runs a few times through, my LOR box that's powering my roof lights go off and shuts down. It doesn't trip a breaker and doesn't blow a fuse. It just crashes like a fuse was blown or breaker tripped. I tried swapping out LOR boxes with another unit and the same thing happens.
I have 3 sets of 500 roof lights. Each different colors that alternate (like Richard H of PC). Each string pulls only about 4.5 amps or so. I have them spread out across the lor, so the AMPS shouldn't be a problem and nothing else is plugged into that box. I did try it with other items plugged in and had the same issues. I did plug in more than 3 cords for the LEDs together to make one plug for each color. But since the Amps were so low, I figured that would be fine with LED.
SOLUTIONS TRIED
All the circuits were installed by a professional electrician, so no screwing around on my part. I had the electrician come out again today and he couldn't figure out the buzzing or what the problems were. Everything checked out good. He even went so far as to replace every single breaker that they installed this year and last with new ones to see if that helped. He was at a lost and has never seen the problem before and he was the lead electrician from the company I used. Even if I the electrician turned off the circuit box that was holding the Xmas Circuits, the buzzing kept happening from that same box. When he turned off both electrical boxes, it stopped (but obviously no power was to the house at all).
I also replaced all the fuses in the box with new fuses and no change there, all are the 15 Amp 250V microwave fusees. Like I said above, I even swapped out LOR boxes and no luck.
Any ideas would be greatly helpful. I tried the search function and couldn't find anything related.
Yep, tried both of those. I used the HWU to turn them all on at once and it crashes within a minute, sometimes sooner. I tried both the "All On" and individual channels. with and without a chase.
When I use the HWU with the Chase, it works and doesn't crash, but I still get the buzzing sound whenever the LED lights are turned on with a chase.
I will have to call to find out. I buy them from a Christmas Design service that buys the commercial grade. I didn't see a brand on them. But I put a call into my supplier to find out. Will post once I hear back from him.
Is there anything in particular that I should ask him as well?
The LEDs are obviously the problem...
You should not be able to "hear" them outside when they are turned on!
There is something very odd going on...
Either they are using capacitors rather than rectifiers (and the caps may be leaky also) -or- they were meant to have an external adaptor or supply (do these have regular 120v bladed plugs or are they special connections?)
I am suspecting that there is a very "reactive" load being created by the LED strands which could cause all sorts of nasty things to happen on your entire AC line. (The fact you can "hear" the lights buzz pretty much confirms this)
It sounds like either your supplier will need to supply you with good technical assistance on how to reconfigure them to work properly -or- you will need to replace them with something else (defective, wrong application, etc.)
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I would disconnect those and refrain from attempting to power them up until you get things rectified! (no pun intended)
Can't help with any LOR issues since i don't use it, but...
Are you fading the LEDs on/off?
If yes does the buzzing happen only when they're fading (and goes away at
100% on/off)?
If thats the case try full on/off only using the LOR box
As a test try plugging a normal mini(s) set into the same channel(s) as
the LEDs (that sometimes helps with LED problems)
If you have not done so Discontinue use now...you're bound to damage
something in the lights/or devices in your house
The buzzing that goes through your entire house is EMI
(ElectroMagnetic Interferance) and is of course bad for electronics
My guess is that those LED sets contain something other than just LEDs
(probably capactiors/etc) and don't like being faded thats what causing the EMI
But even fading a large load of 'normal' lights will cause some...(i had some
minor issues with this a few years back)
Yes they do buzz when I plug them into my regula house outlet. I didn't actually try them with a regular extension cord mostof the time (not attached to the LOR at all). But will do that today.
I used a small 15 count string with the same bulbs and they created the buzz most of the time and stayed on with it. Sometimes it did do a quick buzz and stop when using the regular house plug.
XmasLightGuy wrote: Can't help with any LOR issues since i don't use it, but...
Are you fading the LEDs on/off?
If yes does the buzzing happen only when they're fading (and goes away at
100% on/off)?
If thats the case try full on/off only using the LOR box
As a test try plugging a normal mini(s) set into the same channel(s) as
the LEDs (that sometimes helps with LED problems)
If you have not done so Discontinue use now...you're bound to damage
something in the lights/or devices in your house.
The buzzing that goes through your entire house is EMI
(ElectroMagnetic Interferance) and is of course bad for electronics
My guess is that those LED sets contain something other than just LEDs
(probably capactiors/etc) and don't like being faded thats what causing the EMI
But even fading a large load of 'normal' lights will cause some...(i had some
minor issues with this a few years back)
I do use fading in some parts, but it doesn't buzz only when it's fading. It buzzes when it comes on at all, no matter what the part of the sequence or what function, even a simple on/off.
Yes, I discontinued use after several of the posts and I meeting with my supplier today at my house to prove what to him what's going on since the electrician was at a lost.
I have not tried plugging a set of minis in yet to the same channel but will do that today.
Last year, when using only my regular roof c9 incandescents, you could see the slightest change in my homes interior lighting for a fraction of a second when they actually shimmered. I thought it was my eyes going crazy spending too much time in front of the computer, but I saw others had the same thing last year as well.
terrypowerz wrote: The LEDs are obviously the problem...
You should not be able to "hear" them outside when they are turned on!
There is something very odd going on...
Either they are using capacitors rather than rectifiers (and the caps may be leaky also) -or- they were meant to have an external adaptor or supply (do these have regular 120v bladed plugs or are they special connections?)
I am suspecting that there is a very "reactive" load being created by the LED strands which could cause all sorts of nasty things to happen on your entire AC line. (The fact you can "hear" the lights buzz pretty much confirms this)
It sounds like either your supplier will need to supply you with good technical assistance on how to reconfigure them to work properly -or- you will need to replace them with something else (defective, wrong application, etc.)
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I would disconnect those and refrain from attempting to power them up until you get things rectified! (no pun intended)
Thanks. As mentioned in my last post, I am meeting with my supplier today and sending with him video to the manufacturer to prove what's going on. At least I have some information to tell them to maybe get a solution.
Thanks again for everyone for the info. I will report the result once I have my meeting.
terrypowerz wrote: Either they are using capacitors rather than rectifiers (and the caps may be leaky also) -or- they were meant to have an external adaptor or supply (do these have regular 120v bladed plugs or are they special connections?)
Yes, they are using normal 120v bladed plugs with no special connections. Not sure if it makes a difference, but they are using the same normal c9 string wire and I just bought the new LED light bulbs.
I didn't think it should make a difference and they said it wouldn't.
BenDeBrocke wrote: terrypowerz wrote: Either they are using capacitors rather than rectifiers (and the caps may be leaky also) -or- they were meant to have an external adaptor or supply (do these have regular 120v bladed plugs or are they special connections?)
Yes, they are using normal 120v bladed plugs with no special connections. Not sure if it makes a difference, but they are using the same normal c9 string wire and I just bought the new LED light bulbs.
I didn't think it should make a difference and they said it wouldn't. AH HAAA!
So far (to the best of my knowledge) no one has produced replacement screw in LED C9 bulbs that will work well with LOR.
They most likely do have a capacitor in them and on top of that it sounds like they may not be functioning correctly even with straight line voltage.
Hopefully your supplier will be able to help
terrypowerz wrote: BenDeBrocke wrote: terrypowerz wrote: Either they are using capacitors rather than rectifiers (and the caps may be leaky also) -or- they were meant to have an external adaptor or supply (do these have regular 120v bladed plugs or are they special connections?)
Yes, they are using normal 120v bladed plugs with no special connections. Not sure if it makes a difference, but they are using the same normal c9 string wire and I just bought the new LED light bulbs.
I didn't think it should make a difference and they said it wouldn't. AH HAAA!
So far (to the best of my knowledge) no one has produced replacement screw in LED C9 bulbs that will work well with LOR.
They most likely do have a capacitor in them and on top of that it sounds like they may not be functioning correctly even with straight line voltage.
Hopefully your supplier will be able to help
I thought other people did that already. Isn't that what they called a "retro fit"? I guess not.
Either way, after a bunch of phone calls and demo of what's going on to the manufacturer and supplier, they agreed that it's better and quicker to just replace them with the incandescent bulbs.
So, I guess I avoid the bill and any problems. Thanks to those who helped out with info for me to check. This is such a great resource.
Last edited on Tuesday December 4th, 2007 08:12 pm by BenDeBrocke
but I would disconnect those and refrain from attempting to power them up until you get things rectified! (no pun intended)
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