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Hey all, I'm still having chase track problems. Can someone give me a 123 on adding columns in a chase track. I was able to add them 20 or 30 at a time the other day. Having problems now. I just had a thought, maybe my song might be programmed in all tracks. So anyway, when I open my chase and hide not in track tap out the first column or two and then I try to assign the songs end time to the last column and then want to add 20 or so columns per sec for the length of the song. I go to add and type 25 or however many columns I want to add they pop in at the end of the song and quickly disappear. Have I answered my own question and would previous programming in all tracks give you that kind of problem. I'm on the road and trying to get something going during my spare time. Sorry for the bother. Thanks all...
Do not select "hide not in tracks"when you are trying to setup an individual track. I'm not sure but selecting the "hide not in tracks" might be the reason it's disappearing.
Be sure to select a new track (1, 2, 3, or what ever name you changed the track to)
tap out the song track or use the option to block it out by beats per second
I got the hide not in track, but not sure how to add columns per sec. I used the add columns from the right click and add. Figured you could add say columns per sec for the duration of the song, and may have done it, but I'm drawing a blank. Kind of practicing with this first song just trying to get the basics, but once I seem to get a line on things next time I can't always remember how I got there. Old age I guess. I've gone back through Ken's classes and the light goes on again, but adding this chase track and then adding other programming in other tracks has got me scratching my head. Joe Ayo mentioned in a post that he adds 20 columns per sec and goes through and taps out the song and then ajusts the column times as needed. Probably over my head, but I figured I had 6 or 8 months to get some shows put together.. Thanks for the help. Confused in Kansas.
socrnet wrote: Joe Ayo mentioned in a post that he adds 20 columns per sec and goes through and taps out the song and then ajusts the column times as needed.
Sorry I couldn't have been of more help. Unless you go in and do column splits I haven't found any other way to insert columns reliably. If there was multi-threading in the program this would be easy to do, but AD doesn't have multi-threading capabilities.
We do mainly tapping the song out as well. For some reason it just looks better to my (and my husbands) eyes to have the song tapped out vs. having a set number of columns per second. To both of us it's a more organic feel.
Tapping the songs out definately takes practice. Here are the basic tapping tracks that we use:
Main beat track - once per beat (has the most columns)
Vocal 1 - once per sylable(main vocal of the song)
Vocal 2 - varies (backup singers)
Instramental 1, 2, 3 or more (cold be horns, bells, chimes, etc.)
If you are doing a chase track, it is easiest to do it first. This would allow you to add columns in mass numbers because it is the only track. You can add 20 or 30 columns at a time. However, if you have an existing song that you want to add a chase track to, it is much more difficult. the slow tedious way is to select you new track and go and individually insert columns between the columns you need. This will take an incredible amount of time, but can be done. Another way to do it is to use Mike's Animated Moving Co. to insert a chase track as needed. But this can create its own problems.
An alternative would be to create the chase track and then go back and recreate the original programing. This would be less time consuming that creating the chase track since there is much less of the original programming. Then you can hide not in track and copy and paste the old programming into the song. If you are off by a column, the programming will get off, but still that is probably the easiest way where you have the most secure file afterwards.
If you try to insert a column and you have tracks hidden you are asking for a fatal error using 4.025. If you are inserting columns ensure that all tracks are showing (even if you are assigning the track to a specific one so that it will be in that track).
socrnet wrote: Joe Ayo mentioned in a post that he adds 20 columns per sec and goes through and taps out the song and then ajusts the column times as needed. Probably over my head, but I figured I had 6 or 8 months to get some shows put together.. Thanks for the help. Confused in Kansas.
Well lets say I prefer 10 frames a second, although I have 3 songs that use 20 frames heavily.
I first set up grids on 10 frames a second. Then I tap the song and then look for the inserted odd timing columns and select the column before the tapped one that is in the perfect tenths of second grid and delete the tapped column. The reason is, I like a consistent "pixelized" grid.
There are reasons for having a perfect pixelized grid. You can initiate "light on" so close to the note, if its still off, its indistinguishable to most. But you also have a consistent 1/10 second slices to carry out "beat initiated animations" which typically involves as chasing routine of some type, but also you can easily set how long you want the light to remain on. In some cases you can select a "remain on" time ranging from 1/10th second to 4/10ths and so on, as long as you want. Quite often when we tap out a song, its easier to concentrate on tapping "when to light" and not have to worry about when to turn it back off, otherwise you dont have columns available should you want to OFF a light well before the next "on light" column.
I have played a little with Mikes Animated Moving Company software, but not really done a song with it yet. I believe this program allows you to forget about setting a 1/10 second grid, you can just tap out a song and then run this program and it converts the grid to 1/10th second and marks the nearest column to the 1/10 second and deletes your tapped column for you. THat should knock about 2 hours of sequencing time using my methods. BTW, Mike's Animated Moving Company does what is already built into LOR in that you can select 10th of second grid and the LOR tapper "snaps" the taps to the nearest already present 1/10 of second grids. I hate to say it but the pixelized grid is well proven by the LOR who use this method for the vast majority of LOR sequences. Pixelized grids give you options that reduce chances for mistakes being embedded into your grid and are easily fixable. In other words, 10ths of second grids are easier to fix your timing, use complex animations and focus your tapping attempts on what is most important: LIGHT ON.
Once you get your time marked. You have to play it, ready to STOP on a moment's notice... I like to hook up the equipment and see a real light flash on playback, STOP when you see a note missed or off time, and fix it, play again and proof out your main timings. Once this is done you can then go back to beginning anduse those marked times to form your light show based on the timing information. Try to be consistent... either in building from few lights to all on finales or keep your look consistent in chorus lines, etc. You cant force a light personality on a song, the song makes its "own" look and personality. U can see this because when you are all done, and your song looks wonderful to your music, go back and play the lights without the music...you'll see its not so pretty or good quiet and really depends on the music to make it right.
BTW, a huge advantage to having a consistent perfectly pixelized grid is, remember those beat initiated animations. Well you can give a complex multilight movement to a sound, now be consistent with it, use your mouse and copy (control-C) the animation you marked and then paste copies of it over and over as needed using the paste feature (control V). Its very difficult to use copy and paste meaningfully without the pixelized grid so what might seem more difficult at first can sail thru very quickley at the point in which you are filling out your show (after getting your timings marked and proofed).
Last edited on Wednesday March 19th, 2008 08:15 am by Joseph Ayo
MrsD wrote: socrnet wrote: Joe Ayo mentioned in a post that he adds 20 columns per sec and goes through and taps out the song and then ajusts the column times as needed.
Sorry I couldn't have been of more help. Unless you go in and do column splits I haven't found any other way to insert columns reliably. If there was multi-threading in the program this would be easy to do, but AD doesn't have multi-threading capabilities.
We do mainly tapping the song out as well. For some reason it just looks better to my (and my husbands) eyes to have the song tapped out vs. having a set number of columns per second. To both of us it's a more organic feel.
Well pixelizing your grid, doesnt have to change your method of lighting either. Your show would look exactly the same if you ran your grids thru Mike's Animated Moving Company, it would just highlight several columns on a device keeping your light show the same. I guess it would be like taking an analog photograph and scanning it into your computer. Still looks like the same picture even if it looks different under the magnifying glass. It would only be necessary if you needed digital options available including some type of animation that requires a consistently clocked item. For example flashing at 1/10 a second isnt necessary. You can keep lights lit, thru 1, 2, 3, 4, etc colmns at a time (slowing down its flashing appearance). The 10th second is not to have hyper fast flashing as much as it is to provide a precision starting and stopping point and also to have it more copy/paste friendly.
