DIY Scares me - Electrical Questions. Read Only. No more posting. - PlanetChristmas! Forums. Read Only. We've moved to http://talk.planetchristmas.com - The Forums of PlanetChristmas have moved to http://talk.PlanetChristmas.com
Last weekend I was in Home Depot picking up some coax and I overheard a guy in the electrical department who clearly had no idea what he was doing. He was asking the sales guy where those "little hats" were that connect wire. In his cart he had romex, a CUT-IN BOX, and an outlet along with some other items including a sack of concrete.
Now the worst that can happen with a sack of concrete is that he'll make something that will crumble or look bad. But if he was planning on installing that outlet with a cut-in box, he's heading towards a fire or an electrocution. I'm not an expert in electrical, plumbing or carpentry but I do know my way around them and I know my limits but I wonder if others do.
I wanted to ask that guy where he lived so that I could be sure never to buy that house.
Home improvement stores scare me.
____________________ Officially designated one of "Those People". Cashier at Fremont CA Wal*Mart, 12/1/07.
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." Attributed to Dave Barry
I don't mind the home improvement stores as much as the bad information that can come from some of the employees at times.
I shop at both Lowes and Home Depot quite a bit for materials and have heard some information from employees that was totally wrong. Not that all employees are bad, but it would only take one to cause a fatality.
I have heard people told to use a regular double pole breaker to run a hot tub or a regular breaker to feed a bathroom receptacle (not GFI).
The best one I remember was a Lowes employee told a customer that wanted to build a 12 x 24 deck onto his house to "dig down a foot and put a cement block in the hole and use 4 x 4's for the posts to support the deck"!
I guess I should be happy with that one though since I took the customer aside and ended up building the deck and doing a remodeling job for them .
But the average customer that goes to these stores relies on the information that they get from employees and that is the scary part for me. A great deal of employees are quite knowledgeable, but sometimes they are more in the "make the sale" frame of mind and that could lead to some nasty problems.
DIY isn't anything to be afraid of as long as people are willing to take the time to ask questions from more than one source and of course we all have to realize our limitations.
When we moved into our house the bathroom fan didn't work. I decided to open it up to see what was going on and as soon as I touched the plastic cover on the fan the vanity lights went out... then on... then out... etc.
I turned the breaker off... dropped the fan and there it was... a "splice" where the person tried to loop two wires around each other and then pull them tight so the loops would contact each other. Hard to describe without a picture but horrifying to see in person.
Needless to say I did a pretty detailed checkup on the house after that.
____________________ http://www.MaineLights.org
From static to 96 channels of G-L-O-R-Y... 2008 will be GREAT!
This is the number one reason I tell people that if they are going to buy a house have a home inspection done before completing the sale and if you're buying commercial real estate hire a consulting engineer and architect to perform a similar type inspection on the property.
Tony
____________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Those "little hats" have always scared me. There's been way to may times that I've opened an electrical box and had a wire nut fall out. Now was it covering the end of the wire or was it just laying on the cover and where was the wire in relation to the metal box. I've always wondered why these are legal since there is a lot of variability in their installation.
I guess there's been a few times that I've pulled out a switch or outlet and found a screw loose also.
When I first moved in to my house, I went around checking for these things, just for my own peace of mind. I found wire nuts just in light fixtures; they were all tight. I found a couple of screws loose in outlets and one outlet was wired backwards.
____________________ No really... Just one more light and I'll be finished....
Disclaimer: If you take any of what I say as non-constructive, it's not how I intended it.
ErnieHorning wrote: I found wire nuts just in light fixtures; they were all tight. I found a couple of screws loose in outlets and one outlet was wired backwards.
I have seen that so many times. The person putting in the outlets was to lazy to take time to tighten the screws and take a few Minutes to line up the cover plates nice and straight.
As one of "those people" who work in a "scary home improvement store", I highly recommend that when you hear wrong info being given like that, go speak to a manager. Its hard to correct things and make sure employees are doing what they are supposed too (and giving out safe and accurate info) if no one is aware that there is a problem going on.
____________________ Christmas, children, is not a date. It is a state of mind. ~Mary Ellen Chase
A bit of advice that can be given to anyone wanting to "DIY" their own electrical work: Google your question, as it will take you to some of the finest EE and Licensed Electrician forums online. The best thing about doing this I have found, is the pros will discuss their interpretations and iron out the particulars of the Code that involves your needs. They're all honest and open, and many of them have their credentials in their signatures. Some of the talk on this forum really scares me, and I would like to see it steered over to some of the pro channels. There are so many variables in each installaion an modification that you have to have a pros eyes on it. Talking about it in a decorating forum, with responses from other do it yourselfers is just dangerous. Even some of the pros here have gotten it wrong and stuttered on some of the subjects.
Knowing first hand the results of what improper construction can be, I live to follow the NEC. Literally! Every job ever thought of is like a snowflake and needs to be interpreted by someone with experience before being tackled be a weekender. This forum doesn't need an incident marked by death or injury due to bad advice. Good intention isn't a good enough excuse for a negative result when it comes to electricity. Being safe and seeking the advice of the folks that know the right answers is the right thing to do!
oldcqr wrote: My take on DIY electrical work.
WOW!! I could never believe that a person would take out a 15 Amp and replace it with a 50 Amp. Thats beyond crazy!!!
Speaking of home inspection, check out This Old House's Home inspection nightmares. There's plenty of electrical DIY there and the reader comments are hilarious.
Entropy wrote: Speaking of home inspection, check out This Old House's Home inspection nightmares. There's plenty of electrical DIY there and the reader comments are hilarious.
Keep reading, there's about 6 galleries. What's wrong with them? Those repairs are exactly as shown in my copy of "The Redneck's Guide to Home Repair."
The really sad part is that it's not just DIYers that do really stupid things. I'm a forensic engineer and you wouldn't beleive some of the thins I have seen installed by licensed contractors and subsequently approved by the inspector.
The best one was at an indoor pool. The electrical contractor installed a 3 HP 480 VAC 3 phase pump on the pool deck below the water slide, the pump had no GFCI protection, was improperly grounded, the non waterproof disconnect was installed upside down and to really add fuel to the fire the pump could be easily reached by anyone in the pool. On this same job the same contractor also installed standard NEMA 1 motor controllers in the pools pump and chemical room and then couldn't understand why the chlorine fumes destroyed the metal cabinets in less than 3 months.
I had to call the inspector and ask him to meet me on the site and explain all of the code violations to him, only at that point did he advise the owner and contractor that they had to shut the pool down and correct the problems.
Tony
____________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Entropy wrote: Last weekend I was in Home Depot picking up some coax and I overheard a guy in the electrical department who clearly had no idea what he was doing. He was asking the sales guy where those "little hats" were that connect wire. ErnieHorning wrote: Those "little hats" have always scared me. There's been way to may times that I've opened an electrical box and had a wire nut fall out. Now was it covering the end of the wire or was it just laying on the cover and where was the wire in relation to the metal box. I've always wondered why these are legal since there is a lot of variability in their installation.
I'm wondering if wire nuts (that is what we mean by "little hats", right?) were not legal how would we join wires? Electrical tape? (Hopefully not like the bathroom fan described above!) I think wire nuts are very good IF they are properly used. Some of them claim that you don't need to twist the wires--just screw on the wire nut! I think that is a very bad idea. If you properly twist your wires (with linesman's pliers) and then properly screw on the wire nuts you can't pull them off even if you pull very hard.
TED
Last edited on Wednesday April 9th, 2008 04:53 am by TED
Entropy wrote: Last weekend I was in Home Depot picking up some coax and I overheard a guy in the electrical department who clearly had no idea what he was doing. He was asking the sales guy where those "little hats" were that connect wire. In his cart he had romex, a CUT-IN BOX, and an outlet along with some other items including a sack of concrete.
Now the worst that can happen with a sack of concrete is that he'll make something that will crumble or look bad. But if he was planning on installing that outlet with a cut-in box, he's heading towards a fire or an electrocution.
Let's hope the concrete was for a different project than the electrical parts!
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