Split Phase and X10 - Electrical Questions. Read Only. No more posting. - PlanetChristmas! Forums. Read Only. We've moved to http://talk.planetchristmas.com - The Forums of PlanetChristmas have moved to http://talk.PlanetChristmas.com
I have used X10 in my house, but with the two phases coming into the house, the X10 signal does not pass to the other phase in the house. After I bought an X10 phase coupler, I was wondering if I really need it.
Could I accomplish X10 access to the entire house by using an RR501 Transceiver plugged into an outlet on each phase of the house wiring?
Second question: The electrical panel in the house is actually a subpanel. The main panel is located outside the house with the meter. It has the 200 amp main breaker and six additional 20 amp breakers which my son-in-law (an electrician) installed specifically for my display. If I use the Transceivers plugged inside the house, will the signal also pass through those additional breakers located on the main panel at the meter? The LOR computer will be inside the house and attached with the CM11A to the house wiring.
I assume the CM11A will only pass the LOR signals onto the phase to which it is attached. But, willl the signal pass through the house wiring, through the subpanel and back out to the main panel where my display breakers/circuits are located?
That will NOT work if you are using a CM11A or other hardwired interface. RR501's are NOT radio transmitters. They are RECEIVERS only. To get across phases you need to couple them.
Speaking from experience, I would simply plan on buying an active coupler/repeater AND (probably the most important), a handful of X10 filters. This will 'fix' the phase problem, and make things MUCH easier.
Without phase coupling, I'd say X10 worked about 60% of the time. As soon as I added the coupler/repeater that percentage went up to 90%. Once I added the filters my X10 has been rock solid.
I wouldn't bother even trying a passive coupler. Instead, go directly to a coupler/repeater. The easiest way is to buy a dryer outlet repeater like this one: http://www.smarthome.com/4826b.html. Again, you can get this for less if you do some searching around the net. You simply unplug your dryer, plug this in, then plug your dryer into it. As long as your dryer is close to your breaker box, this is the easiest way. Otherwise, go for a module that can be wired into your breaker box (be sure to get an electrician if you feel unsafe working in your load center). Before you order one of these, be sure to unplug your dryer first and see if you have a 3 pin outlet, or a FOUR pin outlet (http://www.smarthome.com/4826a.html). More about phase coupling -> http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Phase_Coupling
I found that the MOST important part of using X10 is to filter all your electronic devices, especially TV's, Computers, and UPS (uninterpretable power supplies, IE: 'battery backups').
All of these devices contain 'switched' power supplies with BIG filters. The effect of which is they completely drain the X10 signal from the power lines. Placing a filter on them allows the X10 signal to happily pass by without the 'electrical vampire' getting in the way. I use these: http://www.x10.com/pro/automation/xppf.htm (NOTE! You can find these MUCH CHEAPER on eBay/etc. Expect to pay $4-$5 each + shipping).
If you are going to use X10, assume right from the start that you MUST buy both the repeater and a number of filters. You will be MUCH happier in the end.
For your second question, yes the X10 signal will go out the sub panel to the main panel. In fact, the signal will get all the way out to the transformer feeding your house. At that point it will become VERY weak and come back into your house on the other phase (that's why some times stuff will work on opposite phases, some times it wont).
Again, the repeater and filters will go a LONG way to making things work better.
Since you already know you have a phase issue and already have a coupler, why not use it?
I don't think the RR501 will interface with LOR. It is an RF interface that takes RF signals (from remote controls, remote switches, etc) and converts them into X10 signals. I have read, but never tested, that you should not have muplitple sources of x10 trying to send the same signal.
My two phase house has no phase problems with X10. Noise is another issue. After years of inconsistant use, I purchased a ELK ESM-1 signal meter. This has greatly helped track down noise problems. There is a vendor on remotecentral.com in the x10 forum that will let you use one (you pay for it, he will refund your money when you return it). These can also be found on ebay for around $40 used. They do not appear often, save your search. Smarthome had them on their auction site for $55.
You might want to be careful about a couple/repeater. I have read that they can cause problems with dimming. I don't have first hand experience as I have never used a repeater and all my dimming is done through scene capable modules.
Maybe Oldcqr can provide further insite.
edited for additional info.
Last edited on Monday April 14th, 2008 02:36 pm by iresq
iresq wrote: You might want to be careful about a couple/repeater. I have read that they can cause problems with dimming. I don't have first hand experience as I have never used a repeater and all my dimming is done through scene capable modules.
Maybe Oldcqr can provide further insite.
I have not experienced any problems with dimming using my coupler. I do use X10 in the house, and have a couple of dimming modules and have never had the 'multiple dim' problem people have described. That may be because most newer modules today can handle the multiple repeats of a command that a repeater sends.
Repeaters do have one foe, and that is an advanced '2 way' switch or module. Thankfully the modules we would typically use (Super Sockets & the Black and Decker outdoor plug-in modules) are not affected.
These 2-way modules send data back to the controller to show their state/etc, using extended codes. When these modules are first turned on, they send status requests back to the controller looking to reset to their 'last known state'. Unfortunately, that causes a broadcast storm as the repeater does it's thing, then the module sees it as a collision and retransmits, back and forth (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9661.msg73984). Again, this shouldn't be a problem for anyone here.
Last edited on Monday April 14th, 2008 02:59 pm by oldcqr
